The hunt is on

[Guest]

In accordance with the goal of locating the infernal that has been spotted within the city of Sacramento, I ask the help of the Kindred. I will personally patrol the areas outside any elder domains but I'd like to have the assistance of all clans in the effort to locate this person. Please us any influence or physical means to keep an eye out in your personal areas. If located, please inform me as soon as possible while keeping eyes on the target. The goal is to capture this person or any those that may accompany him. Information is vital to discover the nature and scope of the threat. While you may have the right of destruction in your domain, I ask that you please not use it in this case as it will be counter productive to our cause.

Any help will be appreciated.

[Theseus Ahroun]

Perhaps it is my ignorance having not dealt with infernals in the past but has this individual taken action against the domain except for being infernal? I understand these infernals aren't exactly nice but most groups I've run with haven't considered just being one a crime.

That being said if this domain considers infernal's to be worthy of destruction you have whatever help I can give. That currently will be limited primarily to physical prowess.

[Solomon Gargoyle]

I'm already looking for signs of Infernalism or just weird happenings. Once I learn a little Auspex I think I'll turn some things up.

[Marius]

Even the Sabbat destroy infernalists. I'm curious as to what organizations you've associated with that tolerated them.

[Theseus Ahroun]

And I'm curious how one who speaks of morality and other such virtues knows the ways of the Sabbat...

While I wouldn't go as far as saying the Camarilla has tolerated infernalists last that I heard they hadn't gone so far as declaring them openly hunted. Some Princes choose to hunt them, some choose to ignore them. It all depends to a degree on what level of corruption one is willing to allow in there domain.

[Marius]

I fought a three decade war against them in Europe.

[Guest]

Perhaps, you misunderstood me Theseus, I requested that the individual(s) we are looking for be captured if possible. I would much prefer information to a dead body at the moment. Of course I won't make the mistake in telling an elder what to do within their own domain, however I believe just killing this person because he turns up in a kindred domain would be a shame. Your choice...

[Theseus Ahroun]

There is no misunderstanding Elder Delacourt, I merely attempted to ask what this individual has done to receive our attention. Based off the overall response at this time I choose to withdraw that question and will for now trust that we are after this individual for good reason.

[Solomon Gargoyle]

Being an Infernalist is not good enough reason?

[Marius]

Let me put this in perspective. If a member of either the Camarilla or the Sabbat wandered our city streets I would be equally interested in mitigating their influence. I would ask that they be staked simply to aid us in learning their intentions and allow them the privilege of purchasing their freedom. However, such luxuries are not present when dealing with mortals.

[Theseus Ahroun]

The largest difference to me is a Camarilla or Sabbat member is fully aware of our existence and the basic rules followed by pretty much all vampires, Anarch's included. For all I know of this infernal he could be an unawakened mortal who got his powers out of a crackerjack box and us opening up this new world to him may have all sorts of unforeseen ill effects. Another question as we can't keep a mortal on ice indefinitely and just letting him walk out the door of his own free will may not be an option. Do we have all the details of this "catch and release" program with this infernal figured out? I personally would prefer it not be brought to any of our Elysium's or be exposed to the court as a whole. With as little information as we have on this individual it sounds like the only options we may have when done with him may be death or bonding him to a court member, neither very appealing on the surface.

Now I'm far from wise or a scholar but maybe this is one we should use the cities collective influence to watch this individual from a far and learn some about him before revealing ourselves to him.

[Marius]

Would you grant him the same leniency if he was a fomori?

[Theseus Ahroun]

Ok, I can't just ignore that one. Mind elaborating on where you see me being lenient there Marius? Maybe I wasn't clear with what I was requesting/suggesting previously. It consisted of not bringing a potentially hostile mortal infernalist around our Elysiums to see where we gather or the court to be able to see who gathers in case it manages to get away and that when your business is finished with him that it either be destroyed or bonded to a court member to insure it won't be able to act against us. I went on to ask that we use influences and watch this infernalist from a distance until we know better what we are dealing with. Regardless of anything else this is a mortal and if he really is acting on his own it may be possible to move him out of the domain through influence use alone resulting in no threat to the masquerade, the court or any acknowledged member of the domain.

To answer your question, yes I would suggest the same course of action on a lone fomori found wandering around town if it wasn't clear who they were, the extent of there power or if they had been awakened to our kind or not. As I know a little more about fomori then infernalists it may take less information gathered before taking action but I would indeed start the same way. Action without information/knowledge can be a dangerous and reckless thing.

[Marius]

After the events at the Elysium in Raven's holdings, no one would suggest that a potential enemy be brought to Elysium. Since we have only one eye witness to identify that this individual exists, it is Mr. Delacourt's decision how he deals with the individual. Regardless, the threat that he poses to our city must be addressed.

Even if the infernalist poses no threat at all, failure to take action will encourage Sabbat and Camarilla to think ill of us, either that we cannot deal with such situations on our own, or worse, that we harbor such creatures. As I stated earlier, the Sabbat would view us through a similar lens.

So no, sitting back and watching the individual's actions is not sufficient action in my estimation. I drew the comparison between a fomori and an infernalist because Raven had drawn for me the parallel between the devil and the fomori presence before. I see that you do not hold the same view as Raven, and that helps me to know your mind better.

[Theseus Ahroun]

To make our decisions based off how the Camarilla or Sabbat will view us seems contradictory to how this city was formed and run to date. I would think the fact we openly shelter multiple vampires who have either just fallen out of favor with these faction or are openly hunted by them would jade these factions view of us more then a single infernalist that isn't immediately destroyed.

No, especially if you want this city to be the safe haven to all of our kind who's past is left the past when they join us, I think we need to make decisions based off what works best for us. Not based off how how the the Sabbat or the Camarilla views us. Afterall those factions have a tendency to look down on outsiders to start with.

I am not suggesting we do nothing about this infernalist. However we do not owe the Sabbat or Camarilla any sway in our decision on this. Ultimately we will have to hope putting forth an organized and strong front against all invading forces would serve enough to keep these factions from raising an army against us. To submit to there will with how we deal with those in our borders does nothing to instill faith in those who come here searching for sanctuary from these larger factions.

[Marius]

I do not disagree with you in the slightest, as it pertains to vampires. Anything else is negotiable.

[Vai Castillian]

What the hell.

Marius, how about you explain to the class exactly what infernalists are, and why they're bad and/or worthy of us capturing or killing. 'Those guys over there think they're bad, so they must be' is a bullshit argument, and you know it.

I mean, it's not that I care. What I know of demon summoning comes from that whiny German play, and Germans should not be allowed to whine, because it's incredibly pathetic. So based on just that (the whining), and the fact that he's presumably using some kind of powers in the city if Delacourt found him, I'm all down with catching him or killing him or whatever. But I don't know if y'all want to model your behavior on my cavalier attitude towards human life.

[DelRay]

so do you guys want him dead or alive?????? i need to know i am so confussed.......... just remember i dont do alive well........

[Marius]

At this point the investigation is being conducted by Mr. Delacourt. Please coordinate wih him in your attempts to procure this individual, alive or dead as the situation warrants.

[DelRay]

Yheaaaaa........ I can kill him..... but i will try alive for the city....

[Raven]

I have been on the receiving end of what a demon calls fun. Trust me on this we do not want anyone in the city who is playing games and summoning demons if they are capplable of it! My personal opion is that their deaths are an exceptable choice when dealing with them. After gaining needed answers if possible.

[DelRay]

Well by them being in the city they have summoned me to kill them...... hehehehe.... i am a bad demon .....lol

[Raven]

Better you then what I saw on the otherside almost a year ago.

[Solomon Gargoyle]

I've fought demons before as well in some courts prior to this one.

[Guest]

Ok, this thread has gotten out of hand and way off topic.


Let me reiterate, In line with the wishes of Marius, I expect all clans and wardens to provide whatever intelligence on the location of these individuals as far as their own domain(s) are concerned. You wanted more autonomy in your areas and this is one of the consequences. You are responsible for the investigations in those areas. Use whatever resources you have, borrow the rest. If you need help, let me know. Any information that is gained, please send back to me. If any of these individuals are found, do your best to capture so we can question them. I will handle the rest of the city, but reserve the right to call on those who have already offered help to assist me in the gathering of information.

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