Fair enough

[Wade Wilson]

Wow...

We can't do it because it's impossible is essentially what I'm hearing....THe drums of war or not your battles can be fought on different fields in different ways.

Again tho...I concede to the city's preference.
You all want your brains beaten in...I'm not one to stop you.
Just don't get mad when you see me watching you get beaten into submission all because you refused to even consider a potential alternative.
This city just may be closer to the Camarilla in mindset than you're willing to admit.

[Marius]

Wade,

You've heard three people weigh in on your suggestions Wade. Not quite a fair sampling considering the number who are on the elder council. A little background might help us to refine your suggestion. The Tremere of this city, let's call them Circle Tremere, are opposed to the Tremere outside of this city, which have been referred to in the past as Pyramid Tremere, a heirarchical reference if I understood correctly. In the course of their opposition, they have stepped on a few toes outside of the city's boundaries. They avoided detection at first, but someone in our city slipped knowledge of their activities to the wrong people, and now there is a state of open warfare.

It is my understanding that the gargoyles were not a part of the expedition that has riled the Pyramid Tremere. Therefore, it should be possible to end this conflict without the 'consequences', as Theseus intimates, for the rest of the Tremere's actions falling on their head. I have several suggestions along this line but, and you can blame this on my Brujah nature if you like, I don't really want to back down from this fight. It's the sort of weakness that encourages our enemies. Had they started with less violence, I would be inclined to negotiate with them, but they have relinquished that right.

Marius

[Vai Castillian]

Wade, I'm generally in your corner on the violence thing. What I wrote before, in case you didn't get it with the capital letters thing, was sarcastic -- the BS that was fed to me when I made the same kinds of suggestions you did, in the past.

But in this case, it's a rock and a hard place situation. Getting something you want out of the Camarilla always costs something, and right now, the only thing we have that's remotely valuable enough to pay is the city itself, something most of us aren't willing to give over in return for peace. I already explained why the price is so high; there's a Justicar masterminding this shit.

Another option is capitulation, but all that would do is teach the Camarilla that if they want something from us, they just have to apply a certain amount of force, and they'll get it. And word will spread to the Sabbat, too, you can have no doubt.

I suppose you could theoretically put manipulation on the table, but seriously -- you think you can outmaneuver a Justicar and a whole city full of Camarilla from a position of absolute weakness, you're welcome to try. I value my head too much to try something stupid like that. Those bastards have lived as long as they have for a reason; they're nobody's fools.

So that leaves putting up enough force that it makes the city not worth what it'd cost to take it. Things should get a lot easier now that the Tremere don't have a clear target.

Diplomacy is as much a war as war is, except it's fought with words and favors, rather than claws and steel. Right now, we're seriously outgunned from the diplomatic standpoint.

[Wade Wilson]

The difference between a good negotiator and a great negotiator...

A good negotiator will get you what you want for a fair price.

A great negotiator will get you what you want and make the other guy THINK he got something for it.

I'm just saying...nothing is impossible.

[Vai Castillian]

Hell, if you think you can do it, be my guest. I know what I'm capable of, and I'm not gonna pull a win out of my ass here.

[Marius]

I will see what I can do.

[Sponsored content]