Re: Rules Discussion: Did you know?

by **Story Teller** Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:29 pm

Well it's been some time, I see Solomon hasn't responded so I'll give it a go.

You may only purchase 1 level of a discipline/skill a week.

Though, if you can afford to do so, you may purchase one level of a variety of disciplines/skills in a given week. Maximum 4.

Here is my reasoning.

I don't want someone to sit on a ton of exp, and after realizing a storyline will be heavily dependent on...let's say Auspex...Go from nothing to Telepathy in the span of one week.

However, If each of you has 4 downtime actions a week that you can accomplish...I don't have a problem with you lining up 4 different teachers to instruct you on four separate disciplines/skills etc. As long as you advance at a rate of 1 level each.

Attributes, and Influences can be purchased in huge chunks. Though Influences are damn expensive on exp at higher levels.

I was under the impression this was the way things have been operating, but if I have players asking for clarification I guess that may not be the case.

Now that we have defined this rule it will be used going forward, and I'll remind adeana.

by Vai Castillian Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:32 pm

Apologies if this has been covered, but can people teach disciplines that are out of clan for them? Like, say, if I were to have celerity, could I teach that?

by **Theseus Ahroun** Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:39 pm

Kind of how I assumed it would be, especially considering influences are supposed to be representative of developing a contact at that particular level of influence and as such it is possible to somehow meet the higher level contact of said influence without ever coming across the entry level contacts.

Disciplines and skills require a certian learning curve as I've understood them making it difficult to jump multiple levels and near impossible to master them in one weeks time.

I've been working under that presumption but wanted official clarification before I start sinking large chunks of points into influences for some upcoming plan's and desire's.

by **Story Teller** Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:45 pm

The House Rules post was updated so that this rule doesn't fall through the cracks again.

Oh and Vai...you can teach any discipline you know up to one level below your current level of skill.

There may be some hindrances for the rarer disciplines. Example if you were a Brujah with....oh Protean 5....you can teach up to protean 4, however the person your teaching must have consumed at least 1 trait of Gangrel blood for this training to stick.

Mentor is the only known way to bypass this. As far as I know the book does not specifically say that you must consume the blood in order to learn a rare discipline from a mentor.

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:48 pm

So doesn't that mean that anyone learning Thuam out of clan can NEVER ever learn the 5th level of any paths? Thuamatugy Paths only go to 5. Not 6. What of Rituals? Also Thuam can be learned from books, so couldn't the blood taking and the cap on what level you can learn be bypassed via a book?

by **Theseus Ahroun** Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:03 pm

He doesn't specifically address Thaum but I'm pretty sure it works on a different ruleset alltogether as it's not your typical discipline.

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:43 pm

What about Necromancy? That works like Thaum as well since it too has rituals and the Paths of Necro only go to 5 levels.

by **Theseus Ahroun** Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:31 pm

My understanding of it is paths in general don't work on the same rule set as disciplines, be that Kuldunism, Thaumaturgical, Necromantic or other. The way I understand them to be is you require the blood to "attune" yourself to the power so to speak, but the level requirements to teach and learn aren't there. Mind you the exact details and specific's will be up to the ST crew to decide. Also there are some obscure disciplines that just don't have elder levels available so unless you have it in clan you will never reach rank 5 or beyond.

by **Story Teller** Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:49 pm

Crazy idea....Let's keep the rare disciplines "Mysterious" No one really knows what crazy things can happen.

Now I shall make ghost sounds..

OooooOoOOooo....Wowooooooooooo...

As far as teaching Thaum to someone who is out of clan. They can never acheive the same level of mastery that someone who has it in clan could achieve.

Yes this means that the Gargoyles are unable to achieve level 5.

It is possible to achieve Thaumaturgy while being self taught. I will not outline the procedure to do so here, but I will state that the same restriction applies. If you're not sporting thaum as an in-clan you will never achieve level 5. You may learn multiple level 4 paths. But that final mastery will forever elude your grasp. For rituals it's the same. If you don't have the level 5 thaum path...you can't access the Advanced rituals.

Here is another interesting thought. If a gargoyle was to begin embracing, and trying to create a blood line version of a gargoyle with thaum as an in-clan they could potentially achieve it. However they would have to sacrifice one of their current disciplines. Perhaps some wingless gargoyles that have dropped Flight in exchange for the potential to Master Thaumaturgy.

Lastly...cause my spidey sense is tingling, and I know this will be the next question....Tremere were mages before they became Tremere... That's how they were able to pioneer the Discipline of Thaumaturgy.

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:14 pm

But don't you need to master your Primary path of Thuam before you can move on? Thus you really couldn't learn any more Thaumaturgy. I don't really think it should be held to the same limits. Like Ryan said, its not like other disciplines. There are NO Elder levels of Thaum Paths.

Edit: Ah ok, you just can't learn Advanced in other paths until you learn Advanced in your primary.

by Vai Castillian Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:27 pm

Yet more proof that whatever the gargoyles might insist, they are not 'winged Tremere'. Wink

by **Story Teller** Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:34 pm

Oh no...don't let Gordon hear vai say that! lol

by Vai Castillian Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:49 pm

One of these days, Gordon and Vai are gonna have it out over this. I think he's going to find Vai's opinion behind the whole thing surprising.

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:55 pm

Vai Castillian wrote:Yet more proof that whatever the gargoyles might insist, they are not 'winged Tremere'.

Guess whose not getting Thuam?

by Vai Castillian Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:58 pm

Guess who doesn't want thaum?

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:58 pm

Guess whose probably lying? Razz

You wants it. Deny all you want. Our Thaum brings all the Nos to the yard. I could teach you but I'd have to charge.

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:02 pm

Other rules question. How does one create a bloodline and how do you create your own disciplines?

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:40 am

Someone was talking about Mask and how they could "make a T-shirt look like something else" with Mask.

Just wanted to remind people that Mask of a 1000 faces does NOT work on clothes. You cannot change what your wearing looks like. If your a Nos in torn up ratty clothes you cant make it look like your wearing a tux or a evening dress. It doesn't work that way. It only affects your body pretty much. So also a Gargoyle who doesn't own or wear clothes would pretty much be a nude person with Mask. So not Masquerade breaching but def gonna get attention! So you still need clothes to go with the disguise. This also brings up an important point I thought of for Gargoyles or other persons with weird body types. If you cant fit into normal clothes that could hurt your Mask. Like I remembered Solomon and some other Gargoyles don't have normal "human" feet. Thus they couldn't really wear regular shoes or boots so that would stand out even if they had Mask up. Also having wings and tails would require holes for that too. Maybe saggy pants so the tail wouldn't need a hole in the pants and shirts that are kind thin around the shoulder area, like a tank top?

by Vai Castillian Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:34 am

That was me, and Vai was saying it to piss Katrina off. I know how Mask works.

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:07 am

I wonder if any elder and above levels work that way though.
Edit: Just looked, nope. Cache is damn cool though, as is Conceal and Soul Mask.

by **Raven** Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:35 am

I don't think any tweaked aspects of disciplines have happened. But I'm not sure in game mechanics how to start.

by **Theseus Ahroun** Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:05 am

There are a couple house rules that have been put in place for a couple vague disciplines/thaum paths. I believe Jason has said for now at least he doesn't want to allow the creation of disciplines and/or combo disciplines as he hasn't had the time, or desire, to come up with a house system for the creation of, requirements and checks and balances for these. As Jason is leaning towards not allowing the creation of these things at all in game I wouldn't pester him with idea's for new disciplines at this point or anything along those lines at this point.

by **Raven** Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:34 pm

That makes sense. I was more wondering in gerneral how the system would work.

by **Story Teller** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:13 am

Yeah sorry guys. Custom disciplines and Combo Disciplines are a whole can of worms I'm not anxious to open any time soon.

If you have a combo discipline you really really want, then do your homework. Come to me prepared with how you will learn it, or obtain it, and make sure it's a damn good answer. Not just whatever is the simplest easiest path towards acquiring it. I mean a DAMN GOOD answer. If you think it's a good answer...stop....and think about it for a few more days before you talk to me. If you still think it's a good answer then move on to step 2.

Finally....the MOST important part....If it's not in a World of Darkness published book don't even bother. There is still a 80% chance I'll still say no even if you've done all the homework and brought an example in a published world of darkness book. If I say no don't argue...cause it just makes me bitter and the next person who tries will get a no before they even finish their sentence lol

by **Solomon Gargoyle** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:20 am

Well I know at least one player has a combo discipline or something. Ahroun does I think. Unless its some funky merit instead?

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